Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

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Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

TJ
Hello,

As a pre-warning, this is going to be quite a long post regarding !ws and !knife, ban waves, GSLT (Tokens), and the currently where everything stands. I know that this post may simply be looked over by a lot of you, but I am hopeful a CS:GO dev will read it. Going back when Gamemann and myself were commenting on the Illegal Plugins thread created earlier this summer, we saw about 6 ban waves, and that was it... almost as valve has forgotten again.

While I do not dislike communities who wish to use !ws or !knife, I understand that you are doing it to drive more traffic and keep your hard work alive, I still believe it is an un-leveled competing field that only Valve can solve. There will always be people who go against the guidelines and against the policies, but Valve is simply sitting back on this one and if they continue to, more and more servers will turn to utilizing these banned plugins. (Proof of such will be later in this message)


Quick Backstory:
-------------------
It has been over a year since Vitaliy Genkin made the 'Request to Server Operators', and although many people have analyzed it, here's my take. It was stated 3.1 million unique players were playing community servers, yet we've never seen another statistic since. The request continued to say that server operators were making a confusing experience for players and devaluing the worth of having a skin, or skins. While, in many ways this is true, giving everyone a karambit slaughter on your server makes the people who own the karambit slaughter double think 'why did I pay for this, it could've been free', many enjoyed getting to preview cool combinations of skins, possible knives they could've purchased, and all in all enjoyed very high-priced items for a temporary amount of time.

The request went on to state that it was a REQUEST, not a demand from Valve. Then finally said that we could contact valve for clarification... which rarely came.

The entire situation was confusing, similar to the notice for gambling sites to shut down due to violation of the SSA, yet websites are still operating using the SSA illegally (commercial use as the notice stated from valve and their cease and desist). In both cases valve was no wheres near transparent, for the most part confusing and this drove, and continues to drive, a lot of players to ignore valves initial request.


Where we currently stand:
----------------------------
After many pleads from Server Operators who are complying with valves request, after the dreaded change over to GSLTs, false bans, etc: people are still operating servers with banned plugins. To my knowledge, now more than ever.

Sadly web archive does not have a save of a !ws query back in May of 2015, before these plugins were banned. I vaguely remember before this notice, I researched 'should I add this to my network', and decided to until the original notice came out, as about 25 pages of results came up (25pages x 15perpg == 375). That is about 375 servers which were operating with !ws or !knife.

As of today, there are 39 pages for !ws, and 41 pages for !knife, bringing the total to about 600 servers, as 15 show up per page. Reading back just earlier this summer, someone mentioned there was 400 servers running these plugins at that time. Clearly it has grown, especially if those 400 were accurate. This means that more people than EVER are using ws/knife. It's kind of sad that this system has driven more people than ever to use it.

I've seen quite a few friends decide to add the plugin to their servers to save their community. Population is not the same, some of their servers depend on brand new traffic, servers ESPECIALLY like surf. Lucky for myself, our most popular servers are more community orientated, plugins mean little(excluding custom timers), it's the environment that makes people stay. This is not the case for every game-mode however. More and more people are deciding to swap over to !ws and !knife, while I understand their reasoning, I cannot bring myself to do the same; nor will I.

Some responses include 'Just follow the guidelines' throughout this mailing list. Most of us who are speaking out here, do follow the guidelines and will continue to, however we aren't going to sit quiet. In the previous post by gamemann, a response included 'You're following the rules and it doesn't affect you'. While the logic is correct, if you follow the rules you won't be punished, the result is not. I have asked my staff just to tally up how many times they see this:

User Player A Connected from The United States.
Player A: !ws
Player A left the game (Disconnected).

Some of our servers see about 50 per weekend, 100 per week. That's 100 new unique players that could be required to our community, at 30+ servers, 15 being CS:GO: this is about 1,000 unique players(excluding less popular servers) that we miss the chance to make our server their constant.

The competition is unfair, there is an illegal/banned niche among us that some of us cannot compete with because we wish to stay in the light of valves server guidelines, all in all, only valve can fix it.


Banned Plugins, a first Solution:
-----------------------------------
A lot of people complain about this, yet nobody has really broken down how the banning system works. One user, SM91337, came onto the mailing list to thank valve for more business, and the ban waves almost daily stopped. For this, I actually wonder why.

While I do not think Valve Corporation would stop doing ban waves because someone got sassy in the mailing list, I'd like to break down the cost of a ban wave.

At the current average of 600 servers running banned plugins, if we assume that we only take 25 pages, because the other 15 are owned by the same community / steam account, that's 15 x 25 again. 375 unique people need tokens.

Each ban wave, assuming that the majority of these do not know about token websites (I saw plenty of times people thanking others for mentioning they even exist), that'd be on average $7.50 for CS:GO x 375.

Each ban wave valve performs off my figures would give $2,812.50 in sheer profit for running a ban wave on illegal functions being used. Now let's assume even 300 of these servers are on the 5(?) major token websites, we're looking at probably 20 copies of csgo among all 5, and the other 75 unique users 95 x $ 7.50 = $712.50 USD per ban wave.

While these are just estimates off the data I can access, as you can see: Valve you are making money by doing ban waves! Why not do them daily? Hourly? Hell, you'd make it not worth some of these users time to keep getting new tokens, as they'd be banned just as fast. In addition these token websites would have their inventory depleted in no time, and we could have a more fair population ground.

A LOT of the servers who switched to !ws and !knife did it because others kept using the banned plugins and found that it was highly unfair that others would be moving forward without them. I'm sure a lot of them, if having no banned plugins or very little servers remaining with them, would go back to their normal servers without the banned plugins even running.

Now everything I mentioned above, yes, it's a stretch on cost, and some of you may see it unfair one of my suggestions is up to almost hourly ban waves, but for those of you who actually want these plugins gone, this is a viable solution.


More solutions:
------------------
Now comes a bit of a conspiracy with how the GSLT system is working. For those of you who only see valve as a money hungry empire, a lot of you assume they banned knife/ws simply so they could earn more money. By eliminating these servers, no one would be buying multiple copies of CS:GO just to keep their servers up, so in turn, they may lose profits*. While this could be true, I doubt a $2,000 profit each wave, vs more and more servers either quitting all together or sticking the middle finger up, is worth it to valve not to do something.

This brings me to a final point, or more solutions. Some, many of you won't like, but of course I encourage feedback.

1. Bring down the Server Guidelines if you are not going to effectively rid of those who do not comply.

This one is obvious. Valve should consider overturning the Server Guidelines if they are not willing to do anything to prevent these servers from operating. This is very unlikely.

2. More frequent ban waves, yes sub-daily. 12 hours, 6 hours, 1 hour.

Whatever it takes to deplete the stock of companies selling tokens, and make it not worth operating these plugins any further.

3. Break the functions. Safe-guard, block, prevent.

I don't know why this one wasn't done to start with... It's 'technically' an exploit, why Valve cannot guarantee that the player is getting a skin from their inventory vs the server, it's beyond me. If AlliedMods can 'safe-guard' sourcemod and prevent these plugins from running, valve has a deeper availability as they are the Authors of the game. There has to be something they can do. It'd probably be less upkeep than ban waves, and for that case, be less of a hassle than the entire GSLT system in the first place.

4. Pay to use ws/knife?

Now this ones a stretch, and it'll get hate, but if you look at what's currently going on... this is already happening! If Valve cares about making that extra $600-2k profit from each wave, implement a payment system to opt-out of having to follow the 'free guidelines'. $15/m - $20 per steam account running these plugins to allow them not to get banned is actually a viable solution. Say even 100 server operators, or 100 communities do this, that's $2k profit to you valve. You get money for people using your skins, your copyrighted materials, etc.


Closing Up:
---------------
For those of you who stayed with me through this entire post, I thank you. I don't want to see the community scene in this game eat each other, and watch everything around us fall apart like TF2 did. I enjoy operating my servers, and enjoy providing an environment for each player who comes through my servers. Our organization/network has been fortune enough not to be completely ruined by competing with ws/knife servers, how-ever we still do see the effects, and it's not fair to some of my friends who own communities who are facing the same troubles.

Someone needs to speak out, we need to get the ball rolling and not let valve continue to push this off. They are a corporation I hold respect for. Free dedicated servers come quite far these days, games like H1Z1 don't even support them, and the ones that do (DayZ, BF4, etc) charge unbelievable amounts to host their servers. Valve may be going against the communities wishes, they may be having poor judgement on how to handle this situation, but they are still a good company overall, or at least one I haven't lost all my faith in yet.

I hope to see responses on this, especially from Ido, Vitality, or one of the Valve devs, as I took some time to compile this. I hope all of you enjoy your weekend and continue to operate your servers successfully. Best of luck as we enter the new school year.

Regards,
TJ
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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

Kristaps Kusiņš

Or,  let us use skins from workshop,  that way people get custom skins.


On Aug 5, 2016 11:14 PM, "TJ" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

As a pre-warning, this is going to be quite a long post regarding !ws and
!knife, ban waves, GSLT (Tokens), and the currently where everything stands.
I know that this post may simply be looked over by a lot of you, but I am
hopeful a CS:GO dev will read it. Going back when Gamemann and myself were
commenting on the Illegal Plugins thread created earlier this summer, we saw
about 6 ban waves, and that was it... almost as valve has forgotten again.

While I do not dislike communities who wish to use !ws or !knife, I
understand that you are doing it to drive more traffic and keep your hard
work alive, I still believe it is an un-leveled competing field that only
Valve can solve. There will always be people who go against the guidelines
and against the policies, but Valve is simply sitting back on this one and
if they continue to, more and more servers will turn to utilizing these
banned plugins. (Proof of such will be later in this message)


Quick Backstory:
-------------------
It has been over a year since Vitaliy Genkin made the 'Request to Server
Operators', and although many people have analyzed it, here's my take. It
was stated 3.1 million unique players were playing community servers, yet
we've never seen another statistic since. The request continued to say that
server operators were making a confusing experience for players and
devaluing the worth of having a skin, or skins. While, in many ways this is
true, giving everyone a karambit slaughter on your server makes the people
who own the karambit slaughter double think 'why did I pay for this, it
could've been free', many enjoyed getting to preview cool combinations of
skins, possible knives they could've purchased, and all in all enjoyed very
high-priced items for a temporary amount of time.

The request went on to state that it was a REQUEST, not a demand from Valve.
Then finally said that we could contact valve for clarification... which
rarely came.

The entire situation was confusing, similar to the notice for gambling sites
to shut down due to violation of the SSA, yet websites are still operating
using the SSA illegally (commercial use as the notice stated from valve and
their cease and desist). In both cases valve was no wheres near transparent,
for the most part confusing and this drove, and continues to drive, a lot of
players to ignore valves initial request.


Where we currently stand:
----------------------------
After many pleads from Server Operators who are complying with valves
request, after the dreaded change over to GSLTs, false bans, etc: people are
still operating servers with banned plugins. To my knowledge, now more than
ever.

Sadly web archive does not have a save of a !ws query back in May of 2015,
before these plugins were banned. I vaguely remember before this notice, I
researched 'should I add this to my network', and decided to until the
original notice came out, as about 25 pages of results came up (25pages x
15perpg == 375). That is about 375 servers which were operating with !ws or
!knife.

As of today, there are 39 pages for !ws, and 41 pages for !knife, bringing
the total to about 600 servers, as 15 show up per page. Reading back just
earlier this summer, someone mentioned there was 400 servers running these
plugins at that time. Clearly it has grown, especially if those 400 were
accurate. This means that more people than EVER are using ws/knife. It's
kind of sad that this system has driven more people than ever to use it.

I've seen quite a few friends decide to add the plugin to their servers to
save their community. Population is not the same, some of their servers
depend on brand new traffic, servers ESPECIALLY like surf. Lucky for myself,
our most popular servers are more community orientated, plugins mean
little(excluding custom timers), it's the environment that makes people
stay. This is not the case for every game-mode however. More and more people
are deciding to swap over to !ws and !knife, while I understand their
reasoning, I cannot bring myself to do the same; nor will I.

Some responses include 'Just follow the guidelines' throughout this mailing
list. Most of us who are speaking out here, do follow the guidelines and
will continue to, however we aren't going to sit quiet. In the previous post
by gamemann, a response included 'You're following the rules and it doesn't
affect you'. While the logic is correct, if you follow the rules you won't
be punished, the result is not. I have asked my staff just to tally up how
many times they see this:

User Player A Connected from The United States.
Player A: !ws
Player A left the game (Disconnected).

Some of our servers see about 50 per weekend, 100 per week. That's 100 new
unique players that could be required to our community, at 30+ servers, 15
being CS:GO: this is about 1,000 unique players(excluding less popular
servers) that we miss the chance to make our server their constant.

The competition is unfair, there is an illegal/banned niche among us that
some of us cannot compete with because we wish to stay in the light of
valves server guidelines, all in all, only valve can fix it.


Banned Plugins, a first Solution:
-----------------------------------
A lot of people complain about this, yet nobody has really broken down how
the banning system works. One user, SM91337, came onto the mailing list to
thank valve for more business, and the ban waves almost daily stopped. For
this, I actually wonder why.

While I do not think Valve Corporation would stop doing ban waves because
someone got sassy in the mailing list, I'd like to break down the cost of a
ban wave.

At the current average of 600 servers running banned plugins, if we assume
that we only take 25 pages, because the other 15 are owned by the same
community / steam account, that's 15 x 25 again. 375 unique people need
tokens.

Each ban wave, assuming that the majority of these do not know about token
websites (I saw plenty of times people thanking others for mentioning they
even exist), that'd be on average $7.50 for CS:GO x 375.

Each ban wave valve performs off my figures would give $2,812.50 in sheer
profit for running a ban wave on illegal functions being used. Now let's
assume even 300 of these servers are on the 5(?) major token websites, we're
looking at probably 20 copies of csgo among all 5, and the other 75 unique
users 95 x $ 7.50 = $712.50 USD per ban wave.

While these are just estimates off the data I can access, as you can see:
Valve you are making money by doing ban waves! Why not do them daily?
Hourly? Hell, you'd make it not worth some of these users time to keep
getting new tokens, as they'd be banned just as fast. In addition these
token websites would have their inventory depleted in no time, and we could
have a more fair population ground.

A LOT of the servers who switched to !ws and !knife did it because others
kept using the banned plugins and found that it was highly unfair that
others would be moving forward without them. I'm sure a lot of them, if
having no banned plugins or very little servers remaining with them, would
go back to their normal servers without the banned plugins even running.

Now everything I mentioned above, yes, it's a stretch on cost, and some of
you may see it unfair one of my suggestions is up to almost hourly ban
waves, but for those of you who actually want these plugins gone, this is a
viable solution.


More solutions:
------------------
Now comes a bit of a conspiracy with how the GSLT system is working. For
those of you who only see valve as a money hungry empire, a lot of you
assume they banned knife/ws simply so they could earn more money. By
eliminating these servers, no one would be buying multiple copies of CS:GO
just to keep their servers up, so in turn, they may lose profits*. While
this could be true, I doubt a $2,000 profit each wave, vs more and more
servers either quitting all together or sticking the middle finger up, is
worth it to valve not to do something.

This brings me to a final point, or more solutions. Some, many of you won't
like, but of course I encourage feedback.

1. Bring down the Server Guidelines if you are not going to effectively rid
of those who do not comply.

This one is obvious. Valve should consider overturning the Server Guidelines
if they are not willing to do anything to prevent these servers from
operating. This is very unlikely.

2. More frequent ban waves, yes sub-daily. 12 hours, 6 hours, 1 hour.

Whatever it takes to deplete the stock of companies selling tokens, and make
it not worth operating these plugins any further.

3. Break the functions. Safe-guard, block, prevent.

I don't know why this one wasn't done to start with... It's 'technically' an
exploit, why Valve cannot guarantee that the player is getting a skin from
their inventory vs the server, it's beyond me. If AlliedMods can
'safe-guard' sourcemod and prevent these plugins from running, valve has a
deeper availability as they are the Authors of the game. There has to be
something they can do. It'd probably be less upkeep than ban waves, and for
that case, be less of a hassle than the entire GSLT system in the first
place.

4. Pay to use ws/knife?

Now this ones a stretch, and it'll get hate, but if you look at what's
currently going on... this is already happening! If Valve cares about making
that extra $600-2k profit from each wave, implement a payment system to
opt-out of having to follow the 'free guidelines'. $15/m - $20 per steam
account running these plugins to allow them not to get banned is actually a
viable solution. Say even 100 server operators, or 100 communities do this,
that's $2k profit to you valve. You get money for people using your skins,
your copyrighted materials, etc.


Closing Up:
---------------
For those of you who stayed with me through this entire post, I thank you. I
don't want to see the community scene in this game eat each other, and watch
everything around us fall apart like TF2 did. I enjoy operating my servers,
and enjoy providing an environment for each player who comes through my
servers. Our organization/network has been fortune enough not to be
completely ruined by competing with ws/knife servers, how-ever we still do
see the effects, and it's not fair to some of my friends who own communities
who are facing the same troubles.

Someone needs to speak out, we need to get the ball rolling and not let
valve continue to push this off. They are a corporation I hold respect for.
Free dedicated servers come quite far these days, games like H1Z1 don't even
support them, and the ones that do (DayZ, BF4, etc) charge unbelievable
amounts to host their servers. Valve may be going against the communities
wishes, they may be having poor judgement on how to handle this situation,
but they are still a good company overall, or at least one I haven't lost
all my faith in yet.

I hope to see responses on this, especially from Ido, Vitality, or one of
the Valve devs, as I took some time to compile this. I hope all of you enjoy
your weekend and continue to operate your servers successfully. Best of luck
as we enter the new school year.

Regards,
TJ



--
View this message in context: http://csgo-servers.1073505.n5.nabble.com/Re-visiting-Banned-Plugins-GSLTs-and-Ban-Waves-tp11935.html
Sent from the CSGO_Servers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
Csgo_servers mailing list
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[hidden email]
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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

Max Krivanek
GSLT is a poor attempt to combat the problem of people selling access to skins on their servers.  Unfortunately, my experience has been banned for doing things completely unrelated, but somehow triggered this ban system.  The last experience I had it appeared that Valve was watching for access to certain properties on weapons that could be related to the skin system.

After that I just completely stopped bothering with it.  Its not worth the headache to deal with the GSLT system.  The people who abuse the system continually find ways around the GSLT ban waves.  While the rest of us suffer.  As the OP points out, more server than ever before are using !ws or !knife.  Its just becoming a market for those who know how to get around the GSLT ban waves.  Those of us trying our best to be honest and following the guidelines just got left in the dust by Valve. 

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Kristaps Kusiņš <[hidden email]> wrote:

Or,  let us use skins from workshop,  that way people get custom skins.


On Aug 5, 2016 11:14 PM, "TJ" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

As a pre-warning, this is going to be quite a long post regarding !ws and
!knife, ban waves, GSLT (Tokens), and the currently where everything stands.
I know that this post may simply be looked over by a lot of you, but I am
hopeful a CS:GO dev will read it. Going back when Gamemann and myself were
commenting on the Illegal Plugins thread created earlier this summer, we saw
about 6 ban waves, and that was it... almost as valve has forgotten again.

While I do not dislike communities who wish to use !ws or !knife, I
understand that you are doing it to drive more traffic and keep your hard
work alive, I still believe it is an un-leveled competing field that only
Valve can solve. There will always be people who go against the guidelines
and against the policies, but Valve is simply sitting back on this one and
if they continue to, more and more servers will turn to utilizing these
banned plugins. (Proof of such will be later in this message)


Quick Backstory:
-------------------
It has been over a year since Vitaliy Genkin made the 'Request to Server
Operators', and although many people have analyzed it, here's my take. It
was stated 3.1 million unique players were playing community servers, yet
we've never seen another statistic since. The request continued to say that
server operators were making a confusing experience for players and
devaluing the worth of having a skin, or skins. While, in many ways this is
true, giving everyone a karambit slaughter on your server makes the people
who own the karambit slaughter double think 'why did I pay for this, it
could've been free', many enjoyed getting to preview cool combinations of
skins, possible knives they could've purchased, and all in all enjoyed very
high-priced items for a temporary amount of time.

The request went on to state that it was a REQUEST, not a demand from Valve.
Then finally said that we could contact valve for clarification... which
rarely came.

The entire situation was confusing, similar to the notice for gambling sites
to shut down due to violation of the SSA, yet websites are still operating
using the SSA illegally (commercial use as the notice stated from valve and
their cease and desist). In both cases valve was no wheres near transparent,
for the most part confusing and this drove, and continues to drive, a lot of
players to ignore valves initial request.


Where we currently stand:
----------------------------
After many pleads from Server Operators who are complying with valves
request, after the dreaded change over to GSLTs, false bans, etc: people are
still operating servers with banned plugins. To my knowledge, now more than
ever.

Sadly web archive does not have a save of a !ws query back in May of 2015,
before these plugins were banned. I vaguely remember before this notice, I
researched 'should I add this to my network', and decided to until the
original notice came out, as about 25 pages of results came up (25pages x
15perpg == 375). That is about 375 servers which were operating with !ws or
!knife.

As of today, there are 39 pages for !ws, and 41 pages for !knife, bringing
the total to about 600 servers, as 15 show up per page. Reading back just
earlier this summer, someone mentioned there was 400 servers running these
plugins at that time. Clearly it has grown, especially if those 400 were
accurate. This means that more people than EVER are using ws/knife. It's
kind of sad that this system has driven more people than ever to use it.

I've seen quite a few friends decide to add the plugin to their servers to
save their community. Population is not the same, some of their servers
depend on brand new traffic, servers ESPECIALLY like surf. Lucky for myself,
our most popular servers are more community orientated, plugins mean
little(excluding custom timers), it's the environment that makes people
stay. This is not the case for every game-mode however. More and more people
are deciding to swap over to !ws and !knife, while I understand their
reasoning, I cannot bring myself to do the same; nor will I.

Some responses include 'Just follow the guidelines' throughout this mailing
list. Most of us who are speaking out here, do follow the guidelines and
will continue to, however we aren't going to sit quiet. In the previous post
by gamemann, a response included 'You're following the rules and it doesn't
affect you'. While the logic is correct, if you follow the rules you won't
be punished, the result is not. I have asked my staff just to tally up how
many times they see this:

User Player A Connected from The United States.
Player A: !ws
Player A left the game (Disconnected).

Some of our servers see about 50 per weekend, 100 per week. That's 100 new
unique players that could be required to our community, at 30+ servers, 15
being CS:GO: this is about 1,000 unique players(excluding less popular
servers) that we miss the chance to make our server their constant.

The competition is unfair, there is an illegal/banned niche among us that
some of us cannot compete with because we wish to stay in the light of
valves server guidelines, all in all, only valve can fix it.


Banned Plugins, a first Solution:
-----------------------------------
A lot of people complain about this, yet nobody has really broken down how
the banning system works. One user, SM91337, came onto the mailing list to
thank valve for more business, and the ban waves almost daily stopped. For
this, I actually wonder why.

While I do not think Valve Corporation would stop doing ban waves because
someone got sassy in the mailing list, I'd like to break down the cost of a
ban wave.

At the current average of 600 servers running banned plugins, if we assume
that we only take 25 pages, because the other 15 are owned by the same
community / steam account, that's 15 x 25 again. 375 unique people need
tokens.

Each ban wave, assuming that the majority of these do not know about token
websites (I saw plenty of times people thanking others for mentioning they
even exist), that'd be on average $7.50 for CS:GO x 375.

Each ban wave valve performs off my figures would give $2,812.50 in sheer
profit for running a ban wave on illegal functions being used. Now let's
assume even 300 of these servers are on the 5(?) major token websites, we're
looking at probably 20 copies of csgo among all 5, and the other 75 unique
users 95 x $ 7.50 = $712.50 USD per ban wave.

While these are just estimates off the data I can access, as you can see:
Valve you are making money by doing ban waves! Why not do them daily?
Hourly? Hell, you'd make it not worth some of these users time to keep
getting new tokens, as they'd be banned just as fast. In addition these
token websites would have their inventory depleted in no time, and we could
have a more fair population ground.

A LOT of the servers who switched to !ws and !knife did it because others
kept using the banned plugins and found that it was highly unfair that
others would be moving forward without them. I'm sure a lot of them, if
having no banned plugins or very little servers remaining with them, would
go back to their normal servers without the banned plugins even running.

Now everything I mentioned above, yes, it's a stretch on cost, and some of
you may see it unfair one of my suggestions is up to almost hourly ban
waves, but for those of you who actually want these plugins gone, this is a
viable solution.


More solutions:
------------------
Now comes a bit of a conspiracy with how the GSLT system is working. For
those of you who only see valve as a money hungry empire, a lot of you
assume they banned knife/ws simply so they could earn more money. By
eliminating these servers, no one would be buying multiple copies of CS:GO
just to keep their servers up, so in turn, they may lose profits*. While
this could be true, I doubt a $2,000 profit each wave, vs more and more
servers either quitting all together or sticking the middle finger up, is
worth it to valve not to do something.

This brings me to a final point, or more solutions. Some, many of you won't
like, but of course I encourage feedback.

1. Bring down the Server Guidelines if you are not going to effectively rid
of those who do not comply.

This one is obvious. Valve should consider overturning the Server Guidelines
if they are not willing to do anything to prevent these servers from
operating. This is very unlikely.

2. More frequent ban waves, yes sub-daily. 12 hours, 6 hours, 1 hour.

Whatever it takes to deplete the stock of companies selling tokens, and make
it not worth operating these plugins any further.

3. Break the functions. Safe-guard, block, prevent.

I don't know why this one wasn't done to start with... It's 'technically' an
exploit, why Valve cannot guarantee that the player is getting a skin from
their inventory vs the server, it's beyond me. If AlliedMods can
'safe-guard' sourcemod and prevent these plugins from running, valve has a
deeper availability as they are the Authors of the game. There has to be
something they can do. It'd probably be less upkeep than ban waves, and for
that case, be less of a hassle than the entire GSLT system in the first
place.

4. Pay to use ws/knife?

Now this ones a stretch, and it'll get hate, but if you look at what's
currently going on... this is already happening! If Valve cares about making
that extra $600-2k profit from each wave, implement a payment system to
opt-out of having to follow the 'free guidelines'. $15/m - $20 per steam
account running these plugins to allow them not to get banned is actually a
viable solution. Say even 100 server operators, or 100 communities do this,
that's $2k profit to you valve. You get money for people using your skins,
your copyrighted materials, etc.


Closing Up:
---------------
For those of you who stayed with me through this entire post, I thank you. I
don't want to see the community scene in this game eat each other, and watch
everything around us fall apart like TF2 did. I enjoy operating my servers,
and enjoy providing an environment for each player who comes through my
servers. Our organization/network has been fortune enough not to be
completely ruined by competing with ws/knife servers, how-ever we still do
see the effects, and it's not fair to some of my friends who own communities
who are facing the same troubles.

Someone needs to speak out, we need to get the ball rolling and not let
valve continue to push this off. They are a corporation I hold respect for.
Free dedicated servers come quite far these days, games like H1Z1 don't even
support them, and the ones that do (DayZ, BF4, etc) charge unbelievable
amounts to host their servers. Valve may be going against the communities
wishes, they may be having poor judgement on how to handle this situation,
but they are still a good company overall, or at least one I haven't lost
all my faith in yet.

I hope to see responses on this, especially from Ido, Vitality, or one of
the Valve devs, as I took some time to compile this. I hope all of you enjoy
your weekend and continue to operate your servers successfully. Best of luck
as we enter the new school year.

Regards,
TJ



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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

dedimark
In reply to this post by TJ
Hello CSGO team

please make Scan time period to every 1-2 h or 1-2 scans every day

because http://hlmod.ru/threads/avtomaticheskoe-obnovlenie-tokena-1-token-3-rub.36324/ This tool grab token for 0.04686$ when token is banned
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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

Nathaniel Theis
Bad idea: Add an API call to revoke gslt and disable all tokens linked
to that phone number for 24 hours- with no authentication besides
knowing the gslt. why?

1. protects against leaks of tokens (bots can scan github etc for them
and revoke)

2. makes token sharing sites much less viable- anybody who gets a
token from one of those can screw them over. ATM they amortize the
cost of a phone number across many users- thus needing to share tokens
or phone numbers. If anybody could pay 4 cents to shut down all the
servers using a shared GSLT- suddenly tokens cost way more because you
can't share phone numbers anymore.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:37 AM, dedimark <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello CSGO team
>
> please make Scan time period to every 1-2 h or 1-2 scans every day
>
> because
> http://hlmod.ru/threads/avtomaticheskoe-obnovlenie-tokena-1-token-3-rub.36324/
> This tool grab token for 0.04686$ when token is banned
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csgo-servers.1073505.n5.nabble.com/Re-visiting-Banned-Plugins-GSLTs-and-Ban-Waves-tp11935p12188.html
> Sent from the CSGO_Servers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Csgo_servers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers

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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

Neuro Toxin
In reply to this post by TJ
SM91337 was bluffing and shutdown their site shortly after that post / Valve's increase to 3 GSLT banwaves a week.

Valve push GSLT ban waves every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

People have methods to avoid detection for unwarrented use of paintkits that are ALOT more expensive then 3 tokens a week for a year.

To make it clear.

Each banwave requires.
- A new email
- A new phone number
- A new steam account
- A new purchase of CSGO

To make it clear. Valve knows how to block this exploit but actively built GSLT to generate a new revenue stream.

Fuck Valve, we need to stick together and stop fighting with eachother. We need to unite and flip the bird to valve for being money hungry and stop letting their GSLT systems drive us apart.

Dont fight eachother, fight Valve!!!
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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

nogsltbans
In reply to this post by TJ
There is public plugin now to block these automatic bans.






Monday, November 21, 2016 5:53 PM
SM91337 was bluffing and shutdown their site shortly after that post /
Valve's increase to 3 GSLT banwaves a week.

Valve push GSLT ban waves every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

People have methods to avoid detection for unwarrented use of paintkits that
are ALOT more expensive then 3 tokens a week for a year.

To make it clear.

Each banwave requires.
- A new email
- A new phone number
- A new steam account
- A new purchase of CSGO

To make it clear. Valve knows how to block this exploit but actively built
GSLT to generate a new revenue stream.

Fuck Valve, we need to stick together and stop fighting with eachother. We
need to unite and flip the bird to valve for being money hungry and stop
letting their GSLT systems drive us apart.

Dont fight eachother, fight Valve!!!



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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

Maxence Sartiaux
Someone has already tried this plugin ?

If it really work, it's another proof that valve is very bad at anti cheat/hack systems

On Tue, 2016-11-22 at 00:42 +0000, [hidden email] wrote:
There is public plugin now to block these automatic bans.






Monday, November 21, 2016 5:53 PM
SM91337 was bluffing and shutdown their site shortly after that post /
Valve's increase to 3 GSLT banwaves a week.

Valve push GSLT ban waves every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

People have methods to avoid detection for unwarrented use of paintkits that
are ALOT more expensive then 3 tokens a week for a year.

To make it clear.

Each banwave requires.
- A new email
- A new phone number
- A new steam account
- A new purchase of CSGO

To make it clear. Valve knows how to block this exploit but actively built
GSLT to generate a new revenue stream.

Fuck Valve, we need to stick together and stop fighting with eachother. We
need to unite and flip the bird to valve for being money hungry and stop
letting their GSLT systems drive us apart.

Dont fight eachother, fight Valve!!!



--
View this message in context: http://csgo-servers.1073505.n5.nabble.com/Re-visiting-Banned-Plugins-GSLTs-and-Ban-Waves-tp11935p12191.html
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Re: Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

Kamil Wilczyński

Do you really need a proof when you can clearly see that they use VAC3 which doens’t work? :D

 

From: Csgo_servers [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Maxence Sartiaux
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2016 2:55 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] Re-visiting Banned Plugins, GSLTs, and Ban Waves.

 

Someone has already tried this plugin ?

 

If it really work, it's another proof that valve is very bad at anti cheat/hack systems

 

On Tue, 2016-11-22 at 00:42 +0000, [hidden email] wrote:

There is public plugin now to block these automatic bans.

 

 

 

 



Monday, November 21, 2016 5:53 PM

SM91337 was bluffing and shutdown their site shortly after that post /
Valve's increase to 3 GSLT banwaves a week.

Valve push GSLT ban waves every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

People have methods to avoid detection for unwarrented use of paintkits that
are ALOT more expensive then 3 tokens a week for a year.

To make it clear.

Each banwave requires.
- A new email
- A new phone number
- A new steam account
- A new purchase of CSGO

To make it clear. Valve knows how to block this exploit but actively built
GSLT to generate a new revenue stream.

Fuck Valve, we need to stick together and stop fighting with eachother. We
need to unite and flip the bird to valve for being money hungry and stop
letting their GSLT systems drive us apart.

Dont fight eachother, fight Valve!!!



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