New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

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New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Antix
Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server performance?

I feel stupid right now...
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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Bruno Garcia
All the information you need is in here:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Regards


On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there
are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server
performance?

I feel stupid right now...



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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Choc
There's no info there for the new netgraph. Have you looked at it?

On 25/04/2014 00:36, Bruno Garcia wrote:
All the information you need is in here:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Regards


On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there
are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server
performance?

I feel stupid right now...



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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Calder Lewis
It's now easier to read statistics. If you've taken Tatar you'll understand the values

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 25, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Choc <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's no info there for the new netgraph. Have you looked at it?

On 25/04/2014 00:36, Bruno Garcia wrote:
All the information you need is in here:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Regards


On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there
are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server
performance?

I feel stupid right now...



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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Absurd Minds

Why is everybody so interested in posting such useless replies? Every single reply here has basically just been "if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you!" I mean, if you're going to waste your time replying, why not actually help us out?

On Apr 25, 2014 9:30 AM, "Calder Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's now easier to read statistics. If you've taken Tatar you'll understand the values

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 25, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Choc <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's no info there for the new netgraph. Have you looked at it?

On 25/04/2014 00:36, Bruno Garcia wrote:
All the information you need is in here:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Regards


On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there
are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server
performance?

I feel stupid right now...



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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Calder Lewis

I just realized how bad that came out. Stupid autocorrect. I'm sorry as well for what will seem like a double post.

 

More or less the change in net_Graph is to more actively reflect statistical data. If you've ever taken STAT you should understand. but more or less it has to do with how much variance there is within the connection between you and the server. they've also converted it into actual ms so that it is easier for the avg player to understand how it actually impacts their play. so more or less its the +/- of the connection in ms.

 

Hope that made a bit more sense.

 

Sorry again.

 

Entfy

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Absurd Minds
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 9:38 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

 

Why is everybody so interested in posting such useless replies? Every single reply here has basically just been "if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you!" I mean, if you're going to waste your time replying, why not actually help us out?

On Apr 25, 2014 9:30 AM, "Calder Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's now easier to read statistics. If you've taken Tatar you'll understand the values

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Choc <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's no info there for the new netgraph. Have you looked at it?

On 25/04/2014 00:36, Bruno Garcia wrote:

All the information you need is in here:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Regards

 

On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there
are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server
performance?

I feel stupid right now...



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View this message in context: http://csgo-servers.1073505.n5.nabble.com/New-net-graph-i-m-too-stupid-tp7002.html
Sent from the CSGO_Servers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Absurd Minds

Can anybody answer these questions directly? Bonus points if you can do it without being condescending.

1. What does the value represented by sv mean now?

2. What does the +- next to the sv represent?

3. What does the current value for var represent?

4. Originally, it was considered respectable to have a var of less than 1, reasonable to have it spike as high as 2, but pretty much horrible to have a variance remain above 2 for any length of time. What would be the equivalent values for the three new measurements (sv, +-, and var)?

On Apr 25, 2014 10:28 AM, "Calder Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I just realized how bad that came out. Stupid autocorrect. I'm sorry as well for what will seem like a double post.

 

More or less the change in net_Graph is to more actively reflect statistical data. If you've ever taken STAT you should understand. but more or less it has to do with how much variance there is within the connection between you and the server. they've also converted it into actual ms so that it is easier for the avg player to understand how it actually impacts their play. so more or less its the +/- of the connection in ms.

 

Hope that made a bit more sense.

 

Sorry again.

 

Entfy

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Absurd Minds
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 9:38 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

 

Why is everybody so interested in posting such useless replies? Every single reply here has basically just been "if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you!" I mean, if you're going to waste your time replying, why not actually help us out?

On Apr 25, 2014 9:30 AM, "Calder Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's now easier to read statistics. If you've taken Tatar you'll understand the values

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 25, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Choc <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's no info there for the new netgraph. Have you looked at it?

On 25/04/2014 00:36, Bruno Garcia wrote:

All the information you need is in here:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Regards

 

On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

can anyone explain it to me? Before you got the sv and var ...and now..there
are like 1000 new values :D. What shall i look at to monitor server
performance?

I feel stupid right now...



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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Vitaliy Genkin

>> Can anybody answer these questions directly? Bonus points if you can do it without being condescending.

>> 1. What does the value represented by sv mean now?

Value of “sv” shows how many milliseconds server simulation step took on the last networked frame.

>> 2. What does the +- next to the sv represent?

Value following sv +- shows standard deviation of server simulation step duration measured in milliseconds over the history of last 50 server frames.

>> 3. What does the current value for var represent?

Value for sv var when server performance is meeting tickrate requirements represents the standard deviation of accuracy of server OS nanosleep function measured in microseconds over the history of last 50 server frames. The latest update relies on it for efficiently sleeping and waking up to start next frame simulation. Should usually be fractions of milliseconds.

Value for client var near fps net graph display is showing standard deviation of client framerate measured in milliseconds over the history of last 1000 client frames. By using fps_max to restrict client rendering to maintain a consistent fps client can have framerate variability at a very low value, but keep in mind that system processes and 3rd party software can influence framerate variability as well.

>> 4. Originally, it was considered respectable to have a var of less than 1, reasonable to have it spike as high as 2, but pretty much horrible to have a variance remain above 2 for any length of time. What would be the equivalent values for the three new measurements (sv, +-, and var)?

For a 64-tick server as long as sv value stays mostly below 15.625 ms the server is meeting 64-tick rate requirements correctly. For a 128-tick server as long as sv value stays mostly below 7.8 ms the server is meeting 128-tick rate requirements correctly. If standard deviation of frame start accuracy exceeds fractions of millisecond then the server OS has lower sleep accuracy and you might want to keep sv simulation duration within the max duration minus OS sleep precision (e.g. for a 64-tick Windows server with sleep accuracy variation of 1.5 ms you might want to make sure that server simulation doesn’t take longer than 15.625 minus 1.5 ~= 14 ms to ensure best experience).

 

Hope this helps,

-Vitaliy


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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Antix
This post was updated on .
I just checked.

On Ubuntu 13.10 with 3.11 lowlatency kernel (acpi=off), 10 slots 128tick ( 9 bots + 1 player ):

sv: 1-3 +- 0.6-0.8
var: 0.5-0.8ms

When i was running the normal kernel and acpi=on, the var was like 0.01 -0.02, but everything else was worse. CPU % was like 25-30% ..which is about 15% lower than before.
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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Antix
Hm, with generic kernel and cpu governor set to performance i get:

sv: 1-3 +- 0.1-0.3
var: 0.01 - 0.03
CPU: around 33%

This was 128 tick, 9bots + me.

Regards
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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Antix
Sorry for spamming..but last test:

same as above + nohz=off

same results, but var is like 0.000 - 0.004ms.

Guess i can live with that.
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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Craig Shannon
Hi Vitality,

Thanks for the answers on the new net_graph, it's great to be able to see and now actually understand server performance by it.

I'm interested in the client var, as it's something players can actually change. Is there any advantage to having it as low as possible or is it just personal preference? Some players prefer to be obtaining the max possible fps at all times and care not for variance, hence just setting fps_max to 999, are these players at a disadvantage?

Regards,
Craig


On 26 April 2014 02:15, Antix <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry for spamming..but last test:

same as above + nohz=off

same results, but var is like 0.000 - 0.004ms.

Guess i can live with that.



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Re: New net_graph ...i'm too stupid.

Steffen Walliser
In reply to this post by Antix
Thanks to Vitaliy for the explanations, it's more clear now. Only thing I currently don't get is what's the difference between the value of +- and the value of var next to it. Isn't it the same?


On 26.04.2014 02:11, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 23:42:34 +0000 From: Vitaliy Genkin
> <[hidden email]> To: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] New
> net_graph ...i'm too stupid. Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> Can anybody answer these questions directly? Bonus points if you can do it without being condescending.
>>> 1. What does the value represented by sv mean now?
> Value of "sv" shows how many milliseconds server simulation step took on the last networked frame.
>
>>> 2. What does the +- next to the sv represent?
> Value following sv +- shows standard deviation of server simulation step duration measured in milliseconds over the history of last 50 server frames.
>
>>> 3. What does the current value for var represent?
> Value for sv var when server performance is meeting tickrate requirements represents the standard deviation of accuracy of server OS nanosleep function measured in microseconds over the history of last 50 server frames. The latest update relies on it for efficiently sleeping and waking up to start next frame simulation. Should usually be fractions of milliseconds.
>
> Value for client var near fps net graph display is showing standard deviation of client framerate measured in milliseconds over the history of last 1000 client frames. By using fps_max to restrict client rendering to maintain a consistent fps client can have framerate variability at a very low value, but keep in mind that system processes and 3rd party software can influence framerate variability as well.
>
>>> 4. Originally, it was considered respectable to have a var of less than 1, reasonable to have it spike as high as 2, but pretty much horrible to have a variance remain above 2 for any length of time. What would be the equivalent values for the three new measurements (sv, +-, and var)?
> For a 64-tick server as long as sv value stays mostly below 15.625 ms the server is meeting 64-tick rate requirements correctly. For a 128-tick server as long as sv value stays mostly below 7.8 ms the server is meeting 128-tick rate requirements correctly. If standard deviation of frame start accuracy exceeds fractions of millisecond then the server OS has lower sleep accuracy and you might want to keep sv simulation duration within the max duration minus OS sleep precision (e.g. for a 64-tick Windows server with sleep accuracy variation of 1.5 ms you might want to make sure that server simulation doesn't take longer than 15.625 minus 1.5 ~= 14 ms to ensure best experience).
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> -Vitaliy


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